CBR 600 Motor into Banshee

[dirtfreak]

I guess I might be biased by the fact I have yet to see 1 street bike motor Banshee that wasn't a total turd in both looks and performance, in the sand at least. Someday I might be proven wrong, but I would bet few could even outrun a 1500 dollar cub in the sand or dirt. I have seen some super fast snow mobile bikes though, but that huge belt flying around under my left leg doesn't excite me too much.

 

 

 

the turbo hillbilly busa doesnt seem like too much of a turd.any many others i have seen on diff sites.im not knocking 2 cycles ive been a 2strock fan for many years.i used to ride the rd 350's and hi 500's h2 750s' back in the day have owned all of them the old gt370's i still have a rd 400 today that i have had since i was 18 and im about 43 today.so i am a long time 2 stroke guy.i used to ride 2 strokes back when they where the shit way b4 a 4 wheeler was thought of.until i was about 25 years old i didnt even like a street bike unless it was a 2 stroke.but times have changed.they quit making the monster kawasaki h2 750 because of emmissions they quit making the rds's because of emmissions.the rd engine is where the rz350lc motor came from,after they outlawed the street bike they started useing the engine in the banshee.now they quit making the banshee.so my point to all of this is you either need to start buying every 2 stroke ower plants you can lay your hands on or your going to be stuck with a 4 stroke under your ass remembering the good old days of a two stroke screamer.

[dirtfreak]

The only way I would put snowmobiel engine parts in my banshee would be: 3 cylinders sitting on top of billit Matoon Machine Cases. No way would I want a CVT Auto Transmission. Matoon's cases allow you to run a 3 cylinder 2 stroke and keep the banshee's manual 6 speed transmission.

 

 

 

 

fill me in on the sled trans.i was thinking of doing the conversion from sled to banshee frame,my sisters husband died and my sister gave me a 1976 harley and a ski doo fromula 3 600 with the 780 z motor in it.both have been sitting up but where both free.i am just trying to make use of them.my banshee is running great so im in no hurry.plus no telling when the banshee will explode time will tell.i was thinkng that the sled is heavier than the banshee and had a bigger engine,so if i installed the engine and trans from the sled why wouldnt it pull the wieght of the banshee.

[gregrob]

NOT worth time or effort IMO to put a 600 class engine in anything other than what it came in.

 

 

If I were going the street bike powered route it would definitely be a liter bike engine, and either a GSXR or a Busa power plant.

 

 

Friend we ride with has a busa in a ds frame it is 100% dunable, comfortable, and hauls serious ass...

 

 

Then there's the 40 shot

[jbooker82]

fill me in on the sled trans.i was thinking of doing the conversion from sled to banshee frame

 

A snow mobiel uses a CVT (Constant Velocity Transmission) It is a belt automatic. As the motor revs up centrifigal force makes the pully on the engine get larger. And the other pully gets smaller. The banshee has a full manual gear box. It doesnt rob near as much horse power as the cvt.

 

CVT is what some utiliy atvs have. You just hammer the throttle the engine revs clear up and you gain speed as the centrifical pullys go to work.

 

Matoon Machine makes a set of cases that will allow you to run a 3cylinder snomobile crank and cylinders and still use the banshee's 6 speed manual gear box and clutch. What turns most people away is the price tag. These cases are Billit aluminum and prices start at $2500. Then you have to get a set of custom made pipes. Do a seach for Crankenstine or Cougar (4 cylinder 2 stroke)

[Tim Potteiger]

the turbo hillbilly busa doesnt seem like too much of a turd.any many others i have seen on diff sites.im not knocking 2 cycles ive been a 2strock fan for many years.i used to ride the rd 350's and hi 500's h2 750s' back in the day have owned all of them the old gt370's i still have a rd 400 today that i have had since i was 18 and im about 43 today.so i am a long time 2 stroke guy.i used to ride 2 strokes back when they where the shit way b4 a 4 wheeler was thought of.until i was about 25 years old i didnt even like a street bike unless it was a 2 stroke.but times have changed.they quit making the monster kawasaki h2 750 because of emmissions they quit making the rds's because of emmissions.the rd engine is where the rz350lc motor came from,after they outlawed the street bike they started useing the engine in the banshee.now they quit making the banshee.so my point to all of this is you either need to start buying every 2 stroke ower plants you can lay your hands on or your going to be stuck with a 4 stroke under your ass remembering the good old days of a two stroke screamer.

 

I am not knocking the power of the street bike motor at all. They are badass in their intended application, but they look like crap and rarely run fast in the dirt or sand in a Banshee.

 

I will say that Raptor that LocoGato did is pretty wicked looking though.

[ChippewaTSI94]

A snow mobiel uses a CVT (Constant Velocity Transmission) It is a belt automatic. As the motor revs up centrifigal force makes the pully on the engine get larger. And the other pully gets smaller. The banshee has a full manual gear box. It doesnt rob near as much horse power as the cvt.

 

CVT is what some utiliy atvs have. You just hammer the throttle the engine revs clear up and you gain speed as the centrifical pullys go to work.

 

Matoon Machine makes a set of cases that will allow you to run a 3cylinder snomobile crank and cylinders and still use the banshee's 6 speed manual gear box and clutch. What turns most people away is the price tag. These cases are Billit aluminum and prices start at $2500. Then you have to get a set of custom made pipes. Do a seach for Crankenstine or Cougar (4 cylinder 2 stroke)

 

Gonna have to disagree with you here, man. I've got a 700cc snowmobile motor and CVT in a golf cart which we were using to absolutely CRUSH 450R's and some modded Banshees this summer. There was also a guy with a bone stock 800cc Artic Cat motor in a Banshee frame which was handling some big bore Cheetah Cubs, no problem. He was even putting the power from the CVT into a chaincase and then through a chain to the rear end, and he didn't seem to be lacking power I can say that much.

 

The loss of horsepower in the CVT is offset greatly by the fact that it's constantly in the powerband and you don't have to shift. Launches perfect and just sits in the sweet spot the whole way down. On a manual transmission, you are only in your motor's peak horsepower range for a few hundred RPM's at best.

[mopar1rules]

you drop a 700 yamaha srx motor (snowmobile engine), into a banshee and i can gaurantee that you will be smoking anything out there. the '00-'02 700 srx motors, were 145 hp stock. those engines came on a snowmobile that weighs like 585 wet, and can still power the machine to 115+mph! in a light banshee, that thing would be just insano. you probably wouldn't keep the front end down:) and since its a 2-stroke, it would be way lighter than a cycle engine, not to mention the srx motor has power valves.

 

hey ChippewaTSI94, where are you from?

[mopar1rules]

...here's a video of a banshee w/snowmobile engine....just scan it to like 7/8 of the way thru video.

 

Edited October 11, 2008 by mopar1rules

[ChippewaTSI94]

you drop a 700 yamaha srx motor (snowmobile engine), into a banshee and i can gaurantee that you will be smoking anything out there. the '00-'02 700 srx motors, were 145 hp stock. those engines came on a snowmobile that weighs like 585 wet, and can still power the machine to 115+mph! in a light banshee, that thing would be just insano. you probably wouldn't keep the front end down:) and since its a 2-stroke, it would be way lighter than a cycle engine, not to mention the srx motor has power valves.

 

hey ChippewaTSI94, where are you from?

 

I wish we had the SR-X motor in our cart, but unfortunately we got stuck with the 1998 SX-R model. It's only 115 HP stock and no power valves. But it's been rebuilt and it's putting down about 140-145 HP so its not too bad. The power valves would definitely be sweet though! Plus it's got reeds, pipes, and some other bolt-ons. It's sick for sure; it'll do a wheelie on pavement at half throttle no problem!

 

I'm in the Metro Detroit area and I ride over at Silver Lake mostly... where are you at?

[mopar1rules]

i'm over in the green bay area. what pipes you got on that sxr motor? those motors are built to last. actually, if you want a srx motor, my bro has a complete engine, with the wiring harness, cdi, carbs, etc. motor is a 2000 and only has like 700 or 800 miles on it. can you send me pics of the atv that has the sxr motor in it?

 

mopar_rules1@hotmail.com

[ChippewaTSI94]

i'm over in the green bay area. what pipes you got on that sxr motor? those motors are built to last. actually, if you want a srx motor, my bro has a complete engine, with the wiring harness, cdi, carbs, etc. motor is a 2000 and only has like 700 or 800 miles on it. can you send me pics of the atv that has the sxr motor in it?

 

mopar_rules1@hotmail.com

 

 

How much for the motor? I'd definitely be interested, although we'd probably want to sell our motor first so we don't have to lay out too much cash in the meantime. The pipes on the SX-R are basically a custom made setup that we created to make it fit into the golf cart.

 

Yeah, that's right... it's a golf cart . It's a 1998 Yamaha G16 with a lift kit using Banshee front a-arms, spindles and brakes. The rear is a custom built swingarm and axle, but we broke it last time out, so we'll probably be using a Yamaha GMAX golf cart rear end and building a 3 link suspension setup. It's a beast!

 

I'll send you all the pics we have for it! Unfortunately I don't have pictures for the Banshee which has the Arctic Cat motor in it, but I'll see what I can do. It's a pretty trick setup.

[jbooker82]

The loss of horsepower in the CVT is offset greatly by the fact that it's constantly in the powerband and you don't have to shift. Launches perfect and just sits in the sweet spot the whole way down. On a manual transmission, you are only in your motor's peak horsepower range for a few hundred RPM's at best.

 

So what your saying is the CVT helps off set a bad driver. I would take at Tripple cylinder banshee with 6speed override any day over a CVT transmission.

[ChippewaTSI94]

So what your saying is the CVT helps off set a bad driver. I would take at Tripple cylinder banshee with 6speed override any day over a CVT transmission.

 

 

Haha, here comes the old "bad driver" commentary. Watch any high performance drag racing and you tell me how many of them use manual transmissions. None. It's all automatics and Powerglides.

 

Hands down, a human being cannot shift faster than a properly built and set up automatic transmission. If you want to go the fastest, you use an automatic or a CVT. The only reason you don't see CVTs in pro drag racing as of now is that they can't build belts strong enough to withstand the torque values those engines produce.

 

What's funny is that you're saying you'd prefer a six speed manual gearbox over a gearbox with an infinite amount of speeds. If that was the case, why not use a three speed or a four speed? Simple. A six speed gives you the ability to keep the engine in the peak of the powerband for a longer duration of time. That's why you shift; you shift so that your engine stays close to the peak RPM value. It's also why you see more gears in high performance applications as well as long haul trucks. In a race car they want to keep peak power to the driver at all times; in a semi truck, they want to keep it in the peak torque range to conserve momentum and power. In both cases, having more gears and gear ratios is superior.

 

With a CVT, it's doing the exact same thing but it's doing it way, way better than you or any other human will ever be able to do. Its like a 1,000,000 speed override manual transmission that shifts instantaneously.

 

In a straight up drag race there isn't any "driver skill" besides the launch, and then keeping it straight down the track. If you want to see driver skill, go do MX or watch a rally cross event. In those instances, a manual is superior because you're doing things like trail braking and rev matching and you have to be in the right gear as you exit corners, and you don't want the transmission thinking for you.

 

I've built/driven eight second drag cars as well as a Mitsubishi Galant AWD turbo rally car racing through the woods at 75 mph at night, so if you want to talk race car engineering I'm more than willing!

Edited October 12, 2008 by ChippewaTSI94

[jbooker82]

Haha, here comes the old "bad driver" commentary. Watch any high performance drag racing and you tell me how many of them use manual transmissions. None. It's all automatics and Powerglides.

 

NHRA Pro Stock use a mulit disk cluctch with a manual 5 speed transmission.

 

What's funny is that you're saying you'd prefer a six speed manual gearbox over a gearbox with an infinite amount of speeds. If that was the case, why not use a three speed or a four speed? Simple. A six speed gives you the ability to keep the engine in the peak of the powerband for a longer duration of time. That's why you shift; you shift so that your engine stays close to the peak RPM value.

 

That is correct. That is why you use a close ratio 5 or 6 speed over a 3 speed manual. The name of the game is also to loose less HP in the drive train. You can put that power to the ground to go faster. That is something that a manual transmission does better.

 

Drag Racing is the the sport that is pushing the limits. If some thing new and innovative was to come along like an infinate ratio automatic that makes the manual tranmission a dynosaur wouldnt they be using it? Once you start making so much horse power you dont need infinate ratio's because you have enough horse power. A top fuel dragster is just a single speed. If they can make a cluch disks stand up to 7000-8500 hp why cant they make a belt with stand this horse power. Especially if it is the next best thing as sliced bread.

 

In a straight up drag race there isn't any "driver skill" besides the launch, and then keeping it straight down the track. If you want to see driver skill, go do MX or watch a rally cross event.

 

So back pedaling doesnt count as a driver skill? Anybody can do any kind of racing or sport for that matter. Wether your good at it will determine your sucess. Yea money has something to do with it but you cant buy records.

[ChippewaTSI94]

NHRA Pro Stock use a mulit disk cluctch with a manual 5 speed transmission.

 

That is correct. That is why you use a close ratio 5 or 6 speed over a 3 speed manual. The name of the game is also to loose less HP in the drive train. You can put that power to the ground to go faster. That is something that a manual transmission does better.

 

Drag Racing is the the sport that is pushing the limits. If some thing new and innovative was to come along like an infinate ratio automatic that makes the manual tranmission a dynosaur wouldnt they be using it? Once you start making so much horse power you dont need infinate ratio's because you have enough horse power. A top fuel dragster is just a single speed. If they can make a cluch disks stand up to 7000-8500 hp why cant they make a belt with stand this horse power. Especially if it is the next best thing as sliced bread.

 

 

 

So back pedaling doesnt count as a driver skill? Anybody can do any kind of racing or sport for that matter. Wether your good at it will determine your sucess. Yea money has something to do with it but you cant buy records.

 

Who cares that a clutch disc that can take 7,000 horsepower? Your Banshee doesn't make 7,000 horsepower, it makes AT MOST 120-150 which easily handled by a CVT. Not to mention that Top Fuel dragsters have all kinds of rules about the technology they can use. Automatics and CVTs are against the rules in most racing circuits because it gives an unfair advantage to the driver. Same reason you can't use a delay box; would the car be faster with one? Absolutely.

 

I'm also not convinced that the loss in wheel horsepower you claim a CVT to have over a manual gearbox is that much a difference over a tradeoff for better gear ratios. At least not in the terms we're talking about. Again, if we were working with 1,000 horsepower, you might be right. But we're not.

 

They can't make belts that stand up to 7,000 horsepower for the same reason that ten years ago, they couldn't make a computer with more than 1 GhZ in processor speed. The manual clutch transmission has about eighty years of research and testing over the CVT. Give it time, and you'll see what progress gives to a technology.

 

Not to mention all of this top fuel and pro stock reference is again MEANINGLESS to a Banshee racer and the technology we use. We don't have 1,000 HP. We don't even have 500 HP. Scale down to the terms we're talking about, the 100-250 HP range, and a CVT dominates. End of story.

 

As a final end point, my 145 HP SX-R motor cost me exactly $1,000 from a used sled, including the primary and secondary clutches and chaincase. What would it cost you to build a Tripple cylinder Banshee? You couldn't even buy the CRANKSHAFT for $1,000, let alone the whole motor. You can't even get a set of drag ported Cubs for that price. So, while you're having fun emptying your bank account for an unreliable, overrated custom motor, I'll be making more power reliably with a factory-tested engine and more gear ratios!

Edited October 13, 2008 by ChippewaTSI94