tfaith08

F43 and AC MX are the only two options in my book. Just pegs? JDS. I fucking loved mine. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What kind of riding are you doing? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don’t. But I’m in PA and am looking for a reason to bring my quad up. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Some shocks won’t hold up like that. If you tighten past the last click, it can cut the fluid flow way too much and can bend the shock. Doesn’t happen much, but it can happen. If you send a shock to someone like Blommel, he’ll look at your settings and revalve to make that the new center of adjustment if you like how it currently runs. Last click on your current setup will feel like mid-way on your new setup. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Cheapest, not cheap. What’s that, $700 for just the arms? That’s about as reasonable as it gets for good long travel arms. My arms without hardware are right at $1200MSRP. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I wouldn’t trust Alba for mx. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Largely because they’re cheap. The cheapest arms I’d ever trust for mx are Fireball and Lonestar. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I’ve seen a bunch of Alba stuff break in the past few years. You need to get them bolted up and take measurements. Buying a kit doesn’t usually work well. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You can always go standard travel arms if you want to stay with stock shock length. I really wouldn’t trust much other than Lonestar arms for standard travel. DWT and goldspeed make great rims. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Under $1000 is gonna be tough. I would include a set of 4/1 rims in your setup. Fireball +3+1 would be good with a set of your choice in shocks. Strongly recommend bumping your budget up though. Make sure to read the suspension guide. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I’ve dealt with them a few times over orders for builds I helped with and it’s always hit and miss. They were pretty good back when I started talking to them but that was 5 years for me too. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I’ve warned people against this for years. Sucks that it turned out that way. PM me if you need any help and I’ll get you sorted out. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just something I can use to do basic models for front end setups. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bingo. I didn’t remember which constants were used off hand so I just kind of used my own, but the math is there. It always did fascinate me how frequently some things in physics pop up, like this and especially the inverse square law. Do you know of any free 4 link software that I could use to post some more stuff up without having to rely on putting the maths into layman terms? It doesn’t need to be too complex, just enough that I can show bump steer, what caster actually affects, etc. It’s way too easy to dive into design with this stuff, but 95% of the people don’t care to know that much or won’t comprehend it without reading it over and over. It’s super simple shit, it’s just that this affects that, that affects the third, the third alters this, and this requires you change the first thing again. So I’m kind of trying to find a balance between explaining it thoroughly enough and only telling people what they need to know in the shop and on the track. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bump for pin and also spring rate ideas. A lot of people here will run multiple spring rates but really don’t know much about them. The math behind them is about as complex as finding displacement from bore and stroke which I know almost everyone can do. If you aren’t going to follow the math (again, this is as basic as some of your color scheme ideas), you will not understand it. Just follow along and you’ll understand-ish it. Say you have one spring and it measures 500lb/in. That means that it takes 500lb to compress the spring 1”. It takes 1000lbs to compress the spring 2”. Inversely, if you see the spring is compressed by 1.5”, you know there is 750lbs on it. You can take this a step further and calculate it to incorporate the forces seen at preload. Say your spring is 12” long and measures 300lb/in. and you have the ride height set. If you lift the quad up until the tires are off the ground and measure the installed spring, it may come out to 11.5”. That means your spring is under a constant 150lb of force from the start. If you let it back down, it may compress to 10.75”. You now know that it is under 425lb it force. ***Quick side note: if you run a single rear spring and it has to be compressed more than about an inch just to get ride height, you may need a stiffer spring. This doesn’t hold up that well with really high leverage ratios (+14” swingarm for example) and that rule of thumb needs to be altered. With multiple spring rates, you have this formula: 1/Ke = 1/K1 + 1/K2 + 1/K3 Where: Ke = equivalent spring rate K1 = spring rate 1 K2 = spring rate 2 K3 = spring rate 3 Etc. If you only have 2 springs, you just go up to K2. If you have 4 (PEP and Elka stage 4s ffs), go up to K4. To get an idea of this, use small numbers and only 2 spring rates. Let’s use 2lb/in and 4lb/in. Fill those in for K1 and K2 (in any order) an follow the formula. Since all units of measure are in pounds per inch, you can drop lb/in. 1/Ke = 1/2 + 1/4 Simplify: 1/Ke = 2/4 + 4/4 Simplify again: 1/Ke = 3/4 Simplify again: 1/ke = 1/1.333 Finally: Ke = 1.333 Your total combined spring force of 2lb/in and 4lb/in is 1.33lb/in. That means that the springs, when stacked in series, will compress 1” when you apply 1.33lb. Now do it for normal spring rates but without all the simplification. Use 240 and 360. 1/ke = 1/240 + 1/360 1/ke = 3/720 + 2/720 1/ke = 5/720 1/ke = 1/144 Ke = 144lb/in The combined force required to compress a stacked 240lb/in spring and 360lb/in spring is 144lb. Now let’s do it with 2x 500lb/in springs to show you the counter-intuition of it. I know most of you don’t like math, but this is simple shit. If you can’t do this then you probably shouldn’t be doing whatever job you’re doing to fund this hobby. 1/Ke = 1/500 + 1/500 1/ke = 2/500 1/ke = 1/250 Ke = 250 2x 500lb/in springs stacked together give an equivalent spring rate of 250lb/in. So again, this is counter-intuitive, but look at what’s actually happening. The spring has to see 500lb to compress one inch. So if you stack 2 together and only compress them a single inch, each spring is only getting compressed 1/2”. The 240 and 360 above have the same effect, but... The amount that a specific spring out of a set will move in the series is given by this: Lt (Ke/K1) = L1 OR Length total x (equivalent rate/individual rate) = individual compressing ratio. For the 240 and 360 pair, if you want to know how much only the 240 spring compresses if you compress the pair together, you use the formula above. 1” x (144/240) = 0.6” If you compress them together for 1”, the 240lb spring will take up 0.6” of that. Your shocks will have crossovers that limit the amount each spring compresses. If you’re running the 240 and 360 springs but the top spring can only compress an inch, you can just work the math to see how the spring rates pan out through the stroke. 72lb of force will compress 0.5” 144lb will compress 1” 216lb will compress 1.5” Now we know that the 240lb spring can only compress an inch. So if it gets compressed 0.6x the total compressed distance, we can math fuck our way to see where the spring rate changes. I’m not writing the math out, but the formula is here: (X/L1) = Lt Where X = crossover length L1 = individual compressing distance Lt = length total The total length you’d have to compress the 240 and 360 pair before the 240 crossover kicked in and you only have the 360 active is 1.66”, or 239lb of force (144lb/in X 1.66”). At 1.66”, your spring rate would jump from 144lb/in to 360lb/in. Notes: If you increase the main spring, it reduces the total compression length required to pass through the crossover and you may need to change the crossover as well if you want the main spring to be the sole active spring at the same point. Secondary (or tender) springs can be and sometimes are as strong or stronger than the main spring. I’ve seen this on Works shocks and it works well if done properly. More consistent leverage ratios are more tolerant of a more dynamic spring rate. If your leverage ratio ranges from 3:1 at full sag to 1.5:1 at full bump for example, you may be able to effectively run a more varied set of springs. If your leverage ratio varies from 5:1 down to 1.5:1 and you ran the same spring stack, your compression and rebound settings would be more difficult to dial in. Single spring setups are not inherently inferior to multi-spring setups. They are sometimes more effective and sometimes less effective, but they are ALWAYS lighter. However, don’t chase a 2lb weight savings for sloppy suspension characteristics. It won’t make you faster. I ran triple rates up front on my banshee and switched from a dual rate to single rate in the rear. I far prefer a single rate setup to a dual rate setup on my main race quad but the best rear suspension I’ve ever been on (Levi’s hybrid) was a dual rate fox. The best front shocks I’ve ever been on was a quad-rate Stadium and LSR long travel setup. At the same time, people have won championships on single rate fronts. As with any suspension, never chase an arbitrary characteristic; only pursue what you need. A 375lb MX built with a killer suspension setup will always dominate a 300lb MX built with a cobbled together suspension. If you need the weight savings THAT bad, order a titanium spring. Stiffer springs need less compression and more rebound damping. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Please fuck let this be a troll... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Definitely go for 4/1 rims up front. Front beadlocks aren’t THAT necessary and single beadlock rear is usually enough. I don’t like dual beadlocks because of how aggravating it can be to center tires, but go for it if you think the terrain demands it. I’ve always been a fan of DWT rims and tires and am lucky to be sponsored by them. I am also a huge fan of Goldspeed and OMF, but that’s where my preferences end. I’ve heard good and bad about Alba rims, but I’ve seen them win Baja classes and that’s hard to overlook. As for tires, that’s going to be dictated by what size you want to run. For 21/20, pretty much any modern, premium tire is going to work well as long as it has a medium compound. I like Duro Hookups but iRzar are just a touch better. Ambush are good tires too. I’ve never used anything bigger than 21/20 so I’d say to look at what the pros run if you want to go that route. People will knock the pros because of special parts and payouts, but no pro is going to run shit parts. They’ll run slightly under the best at a minimum. This, I’ve seen personally. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Suspension guide https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?share_fid=14738&share_tid=190799&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ebansheehq%2Ecom%2Fforums%2Findex%2Ephp%3F%2Ftopic%2F190799-Suspension-guide&share_type=t Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you’re buying shocks as well, I can’t imagine why you wouldn’t go with long travel. Longer shocks mean a faster shaft speed so you’ll have more control over all aspects of adjustability. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Set the main pressure to get your ride height where you want it. I’ve seen 35psi up to 140psi so you’ll have to mess with it. As for Evol pressure, I usually start at 2x the main chamber pressure and work up. I’ve found that I like mine at 48 and 125, but I’ve got a good friend of mine that runs the same arms and 35 and 120. I race at 180 and he races at 135. For Floats and Evols, you set the pressure with the tires off the ground and then check. As long as your swingarm isn’t more than +4, you should be okay, but -1” to +2 is the ballpark most like to fall into. Stock length is pretty spot on tbh. Trails really like 4/1 rims too. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I can just turn my tact off for a few days. I don’t wanna get kicked off because I have too much fun as it is. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They have better oil flow from what I understand. Supposed closer to how Axis perform Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Didn’t know that. The stage 5s are noticeably better than the 4s. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I always approach it as shooting for the maximum width I can get away with. The wider you go, the less it likes to tip and the more traction the inside tires get. The traction is also more consistent. I would never sacrifice correct geometry for the sake of width, however. That rules out any widening kits, wheel spacers, flipped rims, etc. Any time you add width to the front arms, you reduce bump steer, so there’s another plus as well. Adding a +3,+1 front end on a banshee will make it 6” wider and switching from stock offset to 4/1 will bring the total width down around 2” to a total of 4” wider than stock. That loss of 2” may not sound nice but you’ve reduced bump steer from the wider arms, still increased overall width, and corrected the scrub radius so your feedback will be significantly lower. That makes for a much more agile build. IIRC, +3, +1 and 4/1 rims will give 46.5-47” at ride height. Width at ride height is what matters here. You may be at 43” wide while fully extended so don’t match your rear width to that. As for a balance on F/R width, some prefer a slightly wider front, some prefer a slightly wider rear, and some prefer them to be equal. I personally prefer them to be equal within 1/4”. When I brake into a corner, I have all 4 wheels locked up. When I first brake, I slide back and kick the quad in the direction I want it to go before I fall down onto the inside of the quad so that I can slide into a corner. You also have to factor your brake pedal being on the right side so you may have to wait to kick it to the right until just a little later because your legs are only so long (yet another place that a lowered subframe helps). To time it right is a matter of about 1/2-3/4 second. In this case, the wider the rear is in relation to the front, the more the leading front shock will compress when braking into a corner. You can fix this with a little more compression on the front. A slightly less effective solution is to add a tad more rebound in the rear (be leery about adding rear rebound if the terrain is rough). The reality is that most riders prefer less than 1” total width difference. This effect is small and 99% of riders will never see it unless you take the same corner in the same way over and over and over. You can calculate it, however. You won’t get it 100% accurate the following way, but you can get a ballpark idea. Draw a pyramid with the peak at your COG and the corners at your mean center of your contact patch. If your COG is 24” high and your horizontal width to a corner is 24” wide, you can corner at 1g before tipping. If your COG is 12.5” high and your horizontal width to the corner is 25”, you can corner at 2g. Keep in mind that if you’re cornering at 1g, you also have 1g pulling down. 1g down and 1g lateral give you a 45* tipping point. If the angle from the contact patch to the COG crosses the line made by the forces from gravity and cornering, you will tip. Hanging your body off the inside can move your COG toward the inside and down and lay that 45* angle down to a smaller angle, making tipping harder. Keep in mind that dozens of factors determine this, such as tire pressure, tread design, terrain makeup (dirt, sand, etc.), terrain shape (smooth, bumpy, flat, berm...), body position (including X, Y, and Z placement), suspension operation, chassis flex, etc. You can be cornering below your tipping force and catch a rut just right and increase the lateral force enough to break your tipping point. This is also why riders that keep their ass in the same spot and put their weight to the outside peg can never corner as fast as someone who moves their ass down to the inside and sits on their heel. The quad doesn’t care where you are; it cares about the forces involved. You can lean inside all day but the quad only sees where you put that weight. If it’s all on the outside peg, that’s where your quad sees the force and it will tip easier. As with any suspension topic, there is almost always a matter of compromise. Regarding height and compression, higher will offer more suspension travel but tip more and have less equal traction. Less compression will be more comfortable and offer better traction but will bottom and roll more. On a track, you may be able to gain 2 seconds in the corners by changing setup but you may lose 3 seconds because you can’t hold it straight. You have to be thoroughly analytical. At the end of the day, you’re left with one thing with width: buy an adjustable axle, buy a front end setup that fits your width requirements, and buy a front wheel offset that gives you a good scrub radius (usually 4/1). Once you get your front components, you can’t exactly alter width, so the balance has to be made up in the rear. You’ll likely never get on a quad and say, “wow I don’t like the way this F/R width balance acts.” You’ll notice 20 other things first but even though you probably can’t notice it, it is still there. Small things add up. Pennies make dollars and ounces make pounds. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Let’s also remember that the same Stage 4 shock that Doug Gust won a national championship on is the same shock body that you get when you buy a Stage 4 legacy from Elka today. The only goal of a shock is to mediate forces for up and down motion. Valving and spring rates can be made to serve all of that and they can very well be world class, just don’t expect that to happen right off the bat. Elka has always made good shocks, just not good choices with valve and spring selection. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk