tfaith08

Waiting on the tube notcher (shipped Wednesday) and I’ve been with my grandfather in the hospital until just a few days ago. Spare frame is ready to jig on the bench now. Engine is waiting on a crank and gaskets. Radiator situation is gonna be a huge holdup. I’ve made enough calls already to know it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I recommend those gussets one those places because it’s easy, cheap, and a super common point of failure. I could go on for days about all the stuff I would change or upgrade with no time or budget constraint, but those are the basic two. I do agree on good shocks with all the adjustments. That’s number one. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If someone is buying shocks and arms, long travel is a better option 95% of the time. If someone wants to buy everything in steps and ride in-between, standard travel is the better option. I’ve seen too much alba stuff break to justify recommending it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Been getting questions about widening kits. Not many people know the answers behind why they’re bad, so here we go. Forewarning: I’m intoxicated The biggest geometric reason is bump steer (which skyrockets with a widening kit). The very second one is roll center dynamics. To find roll center, draw a line through your ball joint on the top a-arm and the bolt at the chassis. Do the same for the bottom. Where they intersect is your instantaneous center (IC). Now draw a line from your IC to your contact patch on your tire. Now do this for both sides. Where those last lines (yellow below) intersect is your roll center (green below). *note, I drew a blue line below just because I didn’t have the patience to line up and draw 3 more lines on my phone. It should be mirrored.* The roll center is the point around which the entire quad wants to rotate. You want your roll center as close as humanly possible to your center of gravity, but this can’t happen very easily for quads. You may be able to see that as you compress the suspension, the IC lowers as the tire goes up. If you don’t fully grasp that sentence, you should fully process it before you move forward. Since the IC lowers with suspension bump, so too does the line between the IC and contact patch change. With that, so does the intersection between the left and right sides. Basically, as the quad travels across rough terrain, the movement of the suspension changes the point around which the quad wants to roll. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse depending on the roll center’s relationship to the center of mass. Longer arms make the roll center movement more subtle and therefore more predictable. Tire selection matters too. As long as ride height is maintained, taller tires will result in a lower roll center and smaller tires a higher roll center. DO NOT CONFUSE ROLL CENTER HEIGHT WITH HEIGHT OF CG. You want your roll center aligned with your center of gravity if ever possible. If your roll center is below your CG, you will roll to your right in a left hand curve. If your roll center is ABOVE your CG, you will roll left in a left hand curve. Caster and KPI/SAI (same shit really) play into this as well. In a left hand curve, the inside tire will push into the ground more because of the jacking effect (explained in a few above comments). This also means that your relationship between the IC and contact patch have changed because while the tire pushed down, it did so from turning and had nothing to do with the arm positions. So in a left hand curve, your roll center will push down and right just a little bit, helping the quad want to pull to the left a little more than it wanted to. What does all this mean for you? Lowering your quad will move the roll center and CG farther apart, causing more roll. This is mitigated by more evenly distributed tire loading under cornering forces. Installing taller tires and re-adjusting ride height to suit will make it want to roll more, not only from the side buckling of the tires but also the widening of RC and CG. Wider arms are always better with roll center. Period. More offset offers better RC/CG distance, but with anything non-power steering, always (and by always, I mean 100% of the time) prioritize scrub radius over roll center. Remember, this thread is specifically meant to help everyone. If you have a question or need a better definition or further explanation, comment or sign up and ask. Otherwise, I’m just shooting in the dark on what people need to know. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Arlan on the pipes will be an eventual thing. I can make these CPIs work for now. Fortunately, the stock tank will work with modification so that saves 2 days of fabricating aluminum sheet. It depends on the design of the snorkels. Starting at 2.25” and working up to 2.75” at the pods will let it breathe enough if the length is good. Only problem is that my work is unpredictable and I still haven’t received my tube notcher. I may have to take a job on Monday, or I may be off until February. Who knows? Lol I have determined that tube software is going to be borderline necessary unless I want to waste tube. $300 one time for the software vs. $150 in trial and error on every new chassis design. No physical progress has been made other than the engine being rebuilt but design progress is coming along nicely. Time will tell. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sounds to me like the valving is completely fucked. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Where are you located? I can do the work for cost and material. Probably wouldn’t be more than $150. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well... Just know that the valving will probably be way off. Take it one step at a time. Before you powder the chassis, there are a lot of things I would recommend doing but a bare minimum is getting the stem hoop and lower stem mount gusseted. While you’re at it, replacing the stock stamped crossmember up front behind the bumper with a chromoly tube is a nice cosmetic upgrade and basically free if you’re already doing that other stuff. Cut all the tabs off. The unnecessary but really nice stuff is a lowered subframe, altered geometry, no-link conversion, but you can absolutely get by without these things. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It kicks you forward off the seat? Is that what you mean? I’ve never seen one just launch someone straight up. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I wouldn’t trust alba with a god damn swiffer wet jet, much less a long travel suspension setup. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The cost difference between full aftermarket standard travel and full aftermarket long travel is very minimal. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The cheapest long travel setup I would recommend is also the first one I would recommend to anyone. Fireball +3+1 and any used top tier shock. Next step after arms is tire and rim setup installed at the pressure you plan to run. Whatever you go with, use 4/1 rims. Then you can measure for shock length requirements. For shocks, buy used and have them rebuilt. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just a lil update for some random information. No particular goal here, just musings and random info. Caster works together with the KPI. When you turn left, the caster pushes the left tire down and the right tire up. The KPI pushes both of them down. This means that the KPI and caster together make the right tire stay roughly flat and the left tire push down quite a bit. This loads the front left tire and the back right tire and gives them more traction. This unloads the front right and back left tire and costs traction. While sliding, this balances traction fairly well. When cornering left, this can make it unbalanced. To simply visualize it, turning toward one direction puts more weight on that tire and the one diagonal to it and they will have more traction. Greater scrub radius just amplifies the shit out of this. Less offset is always better imo. To get deeper into it, the quad wants to “seesaw” along those two tires. Depending on how hard you slide to the direction you’re turned, it can rock to one side or the other. Hanging off the inside will bias the weight and keep it flatter and more stable in a slide. The problem with a banshee is quite extensive here. 1. Ackerman wants the tire you’re turning to to be turned in sharper. When you seesaw to that direction, the tires want to pull it in 2 directions at once. This is okay for XC since you don’t slide as much and are usually at lower speed (greater Ackerman is better for lower speeds). For higher speed corners, lots of guys to go LT450R knuckles to keep he Ackerman more parallel and make that seesaw motion less noticeable. But for a banshee, that seesaw motion can load the other front tire (which is pulling less to the direction you’re traveling) and throw you back over the seesaw pivot. 2. The banshee is top heavy and front heavy. Amplifies the effect. 3. Short swingarm lifts under acceleration. Great for those who weight transfer well but terrible for those who don’t, especially in a sliding corner exit. This further lifts the quad. TL;DR: too much caster can kill corner stability and make it more difficult to physically turn. Too little can make it highly unstable under braking. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Alba uses Chinese stuff branded as American. You match shocks to the chassis, arms, and tires. Not the other way around. What is the shock length now? What is your budget? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I sure do appreciate that bud. It won’t be easy but it it’ll be worth it. Maybe he will! I already have one pro rider that wants to help out and dial it in but it’ll probably be a little more aggressive on he shock tune than what I need lol. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Never heard of predator shocks. I wouldn’t trust a brand that nobody knows unless you just have money to blow. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just ordered 80’ of 4130 chromoly in varying sizes. I will only be doing the front chassis section and upper frame rails. I have plans for the rear later on, but that’s still a long way away. I know some of you know these things but others don’t. In my opinion, the all time greatest build threat is “Rezlo’s fast street track S14 build.” Years ago, I learned a lot of fundamentals from that thread. I want this to get close to that. So... For race quad frames (and trophy trucks, roll cages in race cars, kit planes, etc.), 4130 chromoly tuning is used. The difference between tube and pipe is that tube measures outside diameter while pipe is measured inside diameter. A 1” tube will fit inside a 1” pipe. All chassis fabrication where round material is used is done using tube. 4130 is my choice. When choosing a material for a project, just do your research. 4130 and DOM are the major choices. 4130 is stronger so to get the same strength, it’s lighter than DOM. For the same strength, 4130 is about 30% stronger than regular steel. Yes, there are better or harder materials out there like titanium, 4140, etc., but with those come special fabrication practices. Titanium LOVES oxygen, but oxidized titanium is structurally useless. If you want to weld it, you have to keep argon coverage much longer, as well as argon on the back side of the material. Someone opening a door too fast is enough to ruin a titanium weld. Welding 4140 (the times that I’ve done it) requires preheat to slow the rate of cooling in the weld affected zone, otherwise cracks develop. I despise welding on already hot metal. 4130 doesn’t require preheat until you get to the .120” wall thickness range. In the one piece where I am using .120” wall, it will be preheated to around 580F or more. For filler metals, again... DO YOUR RESEARCH. ER80SD2 is my choice. The strength of a chromoly design is in the design, not in the weld. The weld just has to do its part. Using 4130 filler is chemically consistent but can be too rigid and form cracks. ER70 rod is fine when welding 4130 or when welding it to existing structures like mild steel (none will be left on this build), but ER80SD2 is the prime option. Wall thickness on this build will range from .035” to .095 and .120 in one special case. Tube diameter will be 1” for the main structure, 7/8 for a few braces and the lower engine mount, and 3/4 for the rear engine mount. I will also be using some 1/2x0.058 for fender brackets. I could go thinner, but I don’t want anyone to be drunk at a party and plop down on it and break it. Another principal that I’m taking into consideration is the most forgotten of all hobbyists in motorsports: centralized mass. You can have 50/50 weight distribution at each end or side and still have very decentralized mass. This affects rotational inertia, AKA how hard it is to get it to turn or stop turning. I will be using a banshee engine (obviously) which has to be positioned well forward of the normal positioning in this chassis. That amount can be significant. To combat it, I will keep everything as far back as possible. From the radiator, to the fuel tank, even the way I gusset and mount the a-arms, everything will be moved back as far as possible. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You can see just how close the flange is to the frame here. This is going to be a huge problem, but one that I have a solution for. I will make the front section from 1” .083 and 1” .095 wall chromoly. There will be a ton of other little pieces involved. For instance, making the a-arm brackets (0.125” 4130 plate), radiator mounts (0.83” 4130 plate), gussets (0.75” 0.83 wall 4130 tube), etc. First things first, make a jig, order materials, and get to work. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Been talking about it for years. Been planning it out for months. Time to get started. THIS BUILD WILL TAKE SOME TIME. I work on the road and will be doing all the fabrication in the spare time while I’m home. Sometimes for 2-3 days, sometimes for 2 months. The goal: build the best chassis I know of and give it more power than it will ever need. It will be a high-abuse build. I will rape it in the woods, I will roll it in the dunes, I will case it on a track, and I will be letting others ride it. I refuse to build something where I feel like I need to bring a 48” game box full of tools everywhere I go. The chassis: YFZ450R -Xcel lower subframe w/rail modified stem location -Walsh long travel arms w/modified shock mount -Walsh MX swingarm -my pull rod design -Evol RC2 w/Evol mod by BNR -Podium RC2 by BNR -extended and dropped stem flag -LSR stainless axle -Walsh subframe -Rath bumpers and monster peg nerfs -Walsh stem -Walsh stem clamp -Mika Metals CR-Hi bars -Behringer master cylinder -WC full clutch setup -Imprint grips -DWT MXR-V3 on DWT beadlocks -Maddie Razr Cross fronts on DWT rims -Galfer lines and rotors -Precision Elite steering stabilizer The engine: -Redline ported race gas 4mil serval -CPI SBIF -VF4 -33PWK -94whp @ 9400rpm -51.2lb.ft @9100rpm -Redline pro mod trans -Chariot water pump and basket -being rebuilt atm. Immediate problems: 1. There is no rear engine mount in the frame. OEM runs the swingarm bolt through the rear of the 450 engine itself. Part of the frame is cast aluminum. Using 4943 filler makes welding cast a little better, but I still try to avoid it if at all possible. Solution: 7/8” .120wall 4130 where the 450 bracket was. Weld a support to the rear mount for the banshee engine. Not optimal, but absolutely doable. Front engine mounts will have to be beefy as a result. 2. Pipes. I’m using CPI for this build since I already have them and they performed very well on this engine. However, I have wildly insufficient room to make them fit. Again, I’d have to hack part of the aluminum chassis off and make a new piece from scratch to weld back to the cast aluminum section and then bolt to the lower frame rail. 2b. Pipes will stick out way too far. It’s easy, but it’s poor craftsmanship. To tuck them in requires a different radiator location altogether. 2c. Arlan is a busy man. He will get my business one day, but this build at this time isn’t going to allow it. Plus, $1700 for a set of pipes (reasonable, honestly) when I already have a set, shipping both ways, and months of downtime aren’t in the cards atm. Solution: remake the entire front aluminum section from 4130. I can save about 4-5lb this way, create a way to actually route the pipes, mount the radiator(s) wherever I want, and it will be stronger. I will have to cut the pipes in at least 5 places to make them fit. 3. Radiator. Won’t fit anywhere. Neither the 450 or banshee one. Solution: I will have to order a core and make the tanks. I’ll also have to run a fan since it makes the power it does and since it will be an all-purpose build, so a DC conversion will have to happen. Will be thick as hell. I may have to run two. 4. Filters. Pods sit directly between the shock and frame rails. Solution: stainless tube to move them back. There will be some necessary shaping to make them fit. 5. Tank is a fuel injected one Solution: block off the pump hole. Fortunately, the lowest point in the tank sits PERFECTLY for the pingel to have a good location. 6. Kicker. Likely will interfere Solution: cut and weld that hoe. It will not be a quick build. I could do it in a week, but I wouldn’t trust it to stay together and I wouldn’t take pride in it. Will post pics and updates as I remember to. I will try to be as thorough as possible and provide every detail I can remember. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bump for the noobs. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ride height needs to be checked with you on it and in riding position. Go read the suspension guide and make sure your issue isn’t covered there. Chances are that the setup is off, but it is possible that the ball joints are wrong. Keep us posted and we’ll get you sorted out. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Is your ride height slammed and the camber set for that ride height? Should be 6.5-7.5” off the ground a few inches ahead of the engine. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That’s no problem at all. Just go through the guide and post any questions you have here for us to help. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Assuming the arms move freely through the travel without the shocks installed... Go read the suspension guide I posted, then come back with questions. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You’ll be better off just having it built by a third party. It’s a great shock once you go through it. The valving needs as much attention as the spring. What is your ride height at that you want that much larger of a spring? The rule of thumb is that if you have to compress the spring more than an inch to get ride height, you need a stiffer spring. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk