SLORYDER

It will be a nice bump for the money for sure. I'd pull the timing plate off while you're at it and elongate the holes so you can rotate it and advance the timing. That along with th shaved head will be a real nice bump in power from bottom to top.

Welcome One thing you should know about banshees. DON'T get obsessed with modding them or spend too much time on here because you will soon be selling you body on the corner for the next mod. Just kidding. Kind of.

Yeah reeds would be a really god investment. If you plan on going al out vf3 reeds would be a good investment but if not you can port your reed cages and add some boysen dual stage reeds This will give you an idea of a stock cage and a ported one. Leave at least 1mm of rubber for the reeds to seat

Shut up bitch. No one needs your posts.

I have heard of people milling .030" and still running pump gas. I'd go at least .020" as long as the head had never been shaved before.

And you're an idiot.

No, I was hoping I could start a topic and uncover the facts of the whole compression power situation. The last thread had gotten out of hand because of all the knuckleheads on this forum. Hopefully we will have several people chime in with their experiences and we can all learn something. This is not typical. However it is another reason for me to like dealing with HJR. Kevins really a good guy. I don't know about that. Normally when milling the stock head is brought up, someone will chime in and call it ghetto, or a cheap ass mod, or flame whoever is suggesting it. {/quote] If someone is new to tuning engines, and you have 8 people telling them that they need a cool head, and that milling the stock head is a waste of money, they are likely not going to "waste" their money on a milled head. And I am sorry if I look like a hypocrite. My point is that the powers that be (on this forum it happens to be admin/ sponsers, in the real world it is the government) will use their powers for their gain. They have the power to create a false reality in order to gain from it, which the majority will take as truth. The more money the sponsers make, the better the site does, the better the admin does. Although they may not be heartless bastards who care only about taking our money, you'd better believe there is a certain degree of deceit that most people are buying into. In reality a big thing is health care. You go to the doctor with say depression. Instead of actually trying to find the root of the problem, he hives you n anti depressant to numb you. The problem is still there and will never be adressed now because the pain is gone. I digress. Trying not to sound biased, not everyone needs a milled head. Not everyone needs a cool head. But in the grand scheme of things, a stock milled or rechambered head is a great way to cut corners and is NOT ghetto or a cheap ass way of doing things at all. If you want to be an ass and flame me for trying to make a good discussion that everyone can learn from, so be it; but it's assholes like you that are making these free forums more and more fucked up. Read my sig this man speaks the truth.

All I'm saying is that if I had $250, i would rather spend it on milling the stock head and porting. You'd get way more power by going this route than buying a cool head. I'd say at least half of banshees in the US are not ported. I'd say at least half of those have a cool head. That's thousands and thousands of people who are missing out on a lot of hp because they bought a cool head instead of just milling and porting. Not everyone wants to go all out. that's all I'm saying. I'm sure plenty of non-banshee hq'ers would agree with me. People who live in the real world. Ok and Daj, please teell me what question it is that I am avoiding. I have a lot of mechanical experience. I have rebuilt v-twins, including porting and polishing, combustion chamber work including unshrouding the valves by hand (by the way that was the fastest kfx730 in my area). I have gone through 2 years of trade school for automotives, as well as did several blaster rebuilds, LT80's, and a couple of banshees. I have a good mechanical sense when it comes to stuff like this, and I know how to sort through information and put 2 and 2 together. The bottom line is .030" and .020" is a safe amount to mill from the stock head if the engine is otherwise stock or even ported. I would also recommend modding the timing plate when milling. This will save you a lot of coin which you can save for a port job if you are on a budget. John Doe: Hello, I am new to this forum. Right now I have pipes and filters, and would like to know what is the best way to spend my money for more power. BHQ: Welcome. I'd recommend a cool head, timing plate and porting from one of our site sponsors. John: Awesome guys thanks!!! Calls up Jeff at FAST $230 cool head $20 timing plate $300 dune porting $550dollars and a lot of hard work later this guy has a good running 65 horsepower engine. My way milled head $50 mod timing plate FREE RB racing hot dune port $250 $300 later a good running 65 hp engine. Now you can take that extra $250 dollars and get a nice set of paddles, or a swingarm ect. This is the point I am trying to get acros.

All I'm saying is that if I had $250, i would rather spend it on milling the stock head and porting. You'd get way more power by going this route than buying a cool head. I'd say at least half of banshees in the US are not ported. I'd say at least half of those have a cool head. That's thousands and thousands of people who are missing out on a lot of hp because they bought a cool head instead of just milling and porting. Not everyone wants to go all out. that's all I'm saying. I'm sure plenty of non-banshee hq'ers would agree with me. People who live in the real world. Ok and Daj, please teell me what question it is that I am avoiding. I have a lot of mechanical experience. I have rebuilt v-twins, including porting and polishing, combustion chamber work including unshrouding the valves by hand (by the way that was the fastest kfx730 in my area). I have gone through 2 years of trade school for automotives, as well as did several blaster rebuilds, LT80's, and a couple of banshees. I have a good mechanical sense when it comes to stuff like this, and I know how to sort through information and put 2 and 2 together. The bottom line is .030" and .020" is a safe amount to mill from the stock head if the engine is otherwise stock or even ported. I would also recommend modding the timing plate when milling. This will save you a lot of coin which you can save for a port job if you are on a budget. John Doe: Hello, I am new to this forum. Right now I have pipes and filters, and would like to know what is the best way to spend my money for more power. BHQ: Welcome. I'd recommend a cool head, timing plate and porting from one of our site sponsors. John: Awesome guys thanks!!! Calls up Jeff at FAST $230 cool head $20 timing plate $300 dune porting $550dollars and a lot of hard work later this guy has a good running 65 horsepower engine. My way milled head $50 mod timing plate FREE RB racing hot dune port $250 $300 later a good running 65 hp engine. Now you can take that extra $250 dollars and get a nice set of paddles, or a swingarm ect. This is the point I am trying to get acros.

Yeah. Vera had zero fight left in him after that. He did NOT want to get hit there again.

I'd say 3-4 hp

At least you have enough sense to post a somewhat intelligent answer. However you are one of the ones saying that milling the stock head is a ghetto mod, which is clearly bs. Somebody needs to go against the grain and speak the truth. looks like people like you don't have the balls and are too scared of what people think. Pathetic.

Because I am trying to spread knowledge. Frickin communist

No, it appears your friend mattsec likes to create drama. I am trying to have a discussion here and learn something new, instead of relying on what others tell me. I don't know everything there is about banshees, but i'd like to learn as much as possible.

Daj, I generally have a lot of respect for what you say, but it seems like you might be biased on this one. Let me ask you this...Have you ever heard of people having problems milling their head .030"? Have you ever heard of people having problems milling their head .020"? Although I don't have much direct experience in these matters, I have done a LOT of research and a LOT of searching on not only this site but also other great two stroke websites like Macdizzy.com and have come up with enough evidence to put 2 and 2 together. You speak of blaster domes and all these different setups that most people don't have. Hell anyone who doesn't know what they are doing has the same chance of buying the wrong domes and destroying their engine as the guy who arbitrarily cuts .030" off his head without measuring the squish. Again, I am talking about the average joe with a stockish engine that wants a good power bump. Mill the stock head .030" an buy a .020" head gasket for if you need to run pump gas. This is a cheap alternative to a cool head.

Ok I am moving this discussion over to the repairs section because the other one was full of drama. The debate is over whether or not the a cool head is a good buy for the average joe. My theory is that not everyone needs a cool head. That you can mill the stock head or have it rechambered and have close to or right at the same hp as a cool head. The downside of the stock head is that it does not cool as well as a cool head, however I believe the gains in cooling are relatively small and will, in reality not help your engine to have a substantially longer life. In this dyno you can see there is about an 11 hp difference between the green line and the one below it. The one below it is a Banshee with FMF fatties & K&N filters The green line is FMF Fatties, K&N filters, v force 3 reeds, +4 timing key, Vitos Superstock pistons and a cool head with pump gas domes. Now it is well known that the vitos superstock pistons will give you 5-6 hp. So that leaves 5 to 6 hp gain from the cool head, timing and reeds. I'm willing to bet that the cool heads gain was no more than 4 horsepower, which is perhaps one more than a stock milled head, if that. http://bansheehq.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=130851 You've also got to figure in the ability to change domes for relatively cheap. A used set of domes only cost around 50 bucks shipped. So you can have a pump gas setup and a race fuel setup, around 4 and 8 horsepower respectively (assuming 8 on the race fuel) My alternative method is to cut the stock head .030", for around a 6hp gain, and requiring he use of a blend of race fuel and premium unleaded. If pump gas would be desired, a head gasket .010" thicker would give the extra head volume to allow pump gas to be run. This .020" milling is what is generally what is used to run premium unleaded. I have heard of several people going .020" and .030" with no problems. Some say there may be issues with going .030", and this is the right place to discuss this. Another option is to send your stock head off to be rechambered, which will give you the same gains as the cool head, for around 85 dollars. If I were going with a race fuel setup, or any kind of cub or 4mill build, this is what i'd recommend hands down. I would like to keep this discussion civil.

Woooooohooooo! My first thread. i'd like to thank all of the drama queens on this forum for this kind salute to my excellence. May joy and peace flow through all of your lives like a gentle stream trickling down from the heavens.

As in I need the money more than a banshee guy.

Then tell me this.. What would you say is the average temperature a highly tuned bike with your head runs in the summer compared to a stock head setup? At least give me one scenario where you measured the temps against a stock head in a similar situation.

I'm just trying to give an example of where the extra money could be spent.

Milling your head .030" is not a bad idea by any stretch. Milling your head .030" and then running a head gasket that is .010" thicker is not a bad idea either. Everything will be exactly the same as if you'd only milled it .020", which again isn't a bad idea. Brandon stated that in HIS head that has been worked to .040" squish you would have to run a .060" head gasket to safely run pump, giving you .090" or so squish. This is something completely different than what I'm talking about. I'm talking about moving your squish from .040" to .050", wich would put you at the high end of pump gas and the low end of blend.No one said anything about stacking gaskets. I'm talking running a .010" gasket or a .020" gasket, if stock is .010" which I believe is correct.

No one. .020" is a good number to cut for pump gas. No one will argue with that .030" is a good number to cut for 50/50. I know of countless people who have done this without problem My way of doing the stock head IS cheaper than a cool head. 50 vs 150-250. You could do 2 setups, which would be good for the vast majority of people out there for $65, which is $120-250 cheaper than a cool head with two setups. You could do three setups, including having Mull rechamber your head for $180, which is $60 to $240 cheaper than a cool head. Only after four setups does the cool head become worth it to me. Bopttom line...People have been milling the stock head .030" for YEARS and YEARS with no problems. Just run avgas or 50/50 blens. People have been using .020" for years and years on super unleaded. Both will give you gains, similar to a cool head.

And let me re-iterate I would not recommend ANYONE arbitrarily lop .035" off their head. However on an engine with stock gaskets stock crank and pistons I would recommend arbitrarily going .030", and using 50/50 pump gas/ race fuel. I know .035" can be done though if you know what you're doing. So milling your stock head for 50/50 pump gas .030" $50. I believe this is something that can be done arbitrarily to any stock engine. Thicker head gasket for pump gas $15. 2 setups for a total of $65 Want to go race fuel Head shipped $30 Mull machining $85 Total of $115 Wanna go 4mill up to 50/50 race gas Head shipped Mull machining $115 So far you're in the hole less than $300 and you have 4 different setups. The same price as a used cool head with 4 sets of domes. Wanna go 4mill on alky now it's time for a cool head. So to me it's clear that if you plan on building an all out drag bike, buy a cool head. If not, maybe what I've been saying all along was actually a good idea...Dunno...

No, I know it is approximately .068". You should measure before you cut. It is. I have heard of more than one person doing it and no problems after years of riding. Milling the stock head .020" is not dangerous unless your head is already milled. That is why I would not recommending cutting unless you measure first. There are too many variables Again, I can't speak for every one out there. But I believe my advice would be best for the majority of those out there. Before you consider buying a cool head, you should ask yourself "Do I plan on changing my steup more than three or four times" If the answer is yes, then maybe you should consider a cool head. If the answer is no, and you want the best bang for your buck, Get a set of pipes, mill your stock head, mod your timing plate, and send your jugs to get ported. You should be able to afford a much better port job now that you've saved money on the cool head. Do you still disagree with me?

Ok, here are some facts that I know. You can make a 350 run hard on 50/50 race fuel and premium if you mill the head .030". There is no way that your squish band would be too tight nor your octane requirements be more than this, unless you have thinner base or head gaskets than stock. I also know that milling the head .020" is a safe number for runing super unleaded, with the above gasket scenario applying. I have onl heard of a couple of people running a .035" shaved ead, and they had no problems on race fuel. Now, brandon just stated that .050" of gasket material is required to go from a good super unleaded setup to a good race fuel setup. And we know it takes at least .020" to go from a good regular unleaded setup to a good super unleaded setup, right....So that's a total of around .070" in gasket thickness...Follow me So if your squish starts off at say .068", and you mill off .035", you should 100% be safe as far as meeting your octane requirements, because you've only reduced the volume about half of what would be considered the limit for a race fuel setup. Now I realize that there may be more factors such as squish band width and velocity, but I do not believe that milling the head down .035" is going to be extreme enough a change to warrant erradic/ unstable behavior as evidenced by the people I know that have done such a mod. And I believe .035" squish is widely accepted as being safe on the banshee. Here's the bottom line however, whether or not you want to trust my theory: THE MAJORITY of people who own a banshee want to make it faster, so they mod it. When they ask on here what mods they should do to their banshee, one of the first things that pops up is cool head. The reasoning behind this is is so the buyer will have more power, better cooling and the abilit to change setups. So next thing you know, this person is out spending 150-250 dollars on a cool head, when MOST of them DON'T need it. And when someone recommends milling the stock head, it is labeled as a ghetto mod. Why do I say all of this? 1. Because The power gains and extra cooling over the stock milled head are very small and not worth the extra 1-200 dollars. 2. Most people out there won't ever need more than one dome. They want to be able to get more power and still run pump gas. Milling the stock head .020" will do this. If you want a more extreme setup down the road, you can bu another head off ebay for 20 bucks, have it shipped directly to Mull and worked over for race fuel for a total of about $175 dollars for both setups. That's half the price of the cool head setup with two sets of domes. And the truth of the matter is, that your average joe will never need more than the pump gas cut. Browsing through this forum might give you a false notion that you need to dump every dime you make into your banshee, but in the real world this is not what goes on. People have families and other hobbies. Mill the head, get it ported with pipes and timing and put the money you would have wasted on the cool head into more aggressive porting if you really want more power. Chances are you'll be happy with the power, and you will definately be smoking the guy who spent his money on a cool head instead of the extra porting