SlowerThanYou

When I first started using Q16. I decided to take a sniff from the can. Boy was that a mistake, damn near took me off my feet. LOL!

Yes are carbs are plenty fat & we need to start leaning them out a little. Plus, we need to add some more timing, before leaning them out. As for the clutch, we went out knowing it was a tight clutch. The majority of our problem is with the arm weights. I can here the motor pull down way too much rpm when the clutch arms apply. The base pressure is getting close, but still a tad tight. I understand what you are saying & we don't always fix problems with a clutch adjustment. I can't believe how close this set-up is following the 443 Cub. The basic differences are: of course is a bigger motor, about 400 rpm less thru all aspects of the run, using a standard lock-up & not using the multi-stage. Plus, we haven't switched over to the rat poison race fuel yet.

I don't know about that one, but I will never tell.

I was debating on posting that info here or on the Lock-Up tuning thread. As for the weights, they are 20g+ on each arm.

I got to the clutch inspection today. Everything looks good, just starting to show a little heat in a couple of the steels. We are going to make some clutch changes based off the inspection & a couple things that happened at the track last weekend. We tried some lower rear tire pressures last weekend, but it caused 2 problems. 1st, it pulled the motor to far down in rpm around 15' out & never recovered before the 1-2 shift. The 2nd, was almost a motor killing bog at the drop of the clutch. While we don't blame these issues totally on the tire pressure. I'm sure the change in final gear ratio was contributing also. I'll start with the 1st issue of rpm being pulled down to far around 15', till the 1-2 shift. We are going to lightened the arm weights to correct this. We are removing 28 grams total from all 6 arms. IMO, the boys set it up with way too much arm weight! The 2nd issue was a bog at the drop of the clutch. We kind of figured with the gear ratio change. The tightening of the air gap with a stock pressure plate. Well, the bog cost us in the 2nd round of the second race. I removed 8 lbs. of base pressure & that should get us close. Once we get some baseline runs on the above clutch set-up. We will start looking at raising the launch & shift rpm. Plus, run some more timing, based off the plug readings.

This is our 3 bar set-up, we use this for asphalt & sand. For the sand it gets a larger dia. single wheel in the center. We run 3 cross supports across the bottom bars. The only thing I want to add is 1 or 2 diagonal bars between the cross bars. This bar has helped us attain low 1.30 60's on both asphalt & sand/dirt.

I'll try & be politically correct with the answer. With all do respect to K & T. They bent over backwards for us, but in the end they only wanted to blame my tuning. It was their Dyno tune-up that went slower than my (non dyno) tune-up on the track. We found a combination of things wrong with the motor. Plus, with Nick Bennett's & Green's help we discovered another area, the adapter plate. My son Angel is making all the changes to the motor. He's very capable of making things work very well with building/tuning.

Cases ordered last week, should have them in a couple weeks. The motor is getting totally redone & changing port timings also. Then it goes to Shearer's for the Dyno work & changing the pipes. Running out of time, Gilbert is May 5-9.

Well, we are approaching our quickest runs made at our track by our well sorted out 443 Cub with the 535. This is with about 18 runs & we have plenty of work to do yet. So, what was our improvements for this weekends outings. We were quicker by over a tenth & faster by over 2 mph (almost hit 119). The items that contributed to that was final ratio gear change, millisecond shift kill reduction, raising the shift points, new tires & adding/changing the timing curve. While everything went in the right direction with the changes except for the 60's. Most of that problem was caused by the 2.05 final gear ratio. While we did loosen the clutch up, we need to loosen the base pressure & less weight on the arm weights before the next race.

Well, points came out today. Not where we wanted to be, but not all bad. It's 12 race series taking your best 9 finishes. Justin sitting in 2nd place. The old man sitting in 9th place out of 64. The Pro Class has the largest amount of racer's at our track usually 55-75. We have a long way to go with only 3 races under the belt. Justin is missing 2 of the races in May.

There's a reason I ask that & it was based off our experience on the street. I know we have never hooked up in 1st gear, spin city. Differences in rollout will really start to show when you have traction. Hence your pulling to the right in 2nd gear when you start to get traction. The this leads to the next quote. Again for us, no traction in 1st gear = no need for wheelie bar. 2nd & 3rd gear is a different story. We are on the wheelie bar. An improper adjustment or out of whack built wheelie bar will steer the quad also. Go Team toofast4uSlowerThanYou........!!!!!! The worlds fastest keyboard racer's/tuner's. We are so confused we don't know how to be faster or slower than you.

Wheelie Bar, if 3 or 4 bar & 1 or 2 wheels?

Are you running on the street?

It doesn't matter, the rollout needs to be measured. Unless Mickey has gotten better, they were some of the worst for rollout differences.

1st place to start/ cheapest IMO is measuring rear tire rollout. We normally do this on new tires & stretch the lesser one to match the greater one. If the tires have been used, like it sounds in your case. Measure to see the difference & share the findings. Usually nothing can be done to stretch a tire that has taken its set. We prefer to keep the difference less than a 1/4 between the 2 tires.

While some of the basics have been covered in this thread. Most refer to air gap as the measurement between lock-up arm & pressure plate as stated by possum. Some refer to air gap as the distance created between the pressure plate & clutch pack when the clutch lever is pulled in as implied by tricked. The most common reference to this is not air gap, but referred to as clutch pack height. Now, for tricked's question. Yes, you can adjust the clutch pack height for a quicker reaction. Simply by increasing the clutch stack height. We do this by installing a thicker steel. We have a thickness we use now & getting ready to test a thicker steel/increased stack height. Sorry, I pointed you guys in the right direction, but not giving up all my measurement/information. ***NOTE/CAUTION*** More stack height can cause other problems. Your clutch adjustment window in reference to your arrows on the case/clutch engagement arm becomes narrower & needs adjustment more frequent. More isn't always better! There are also other things that can be done also. Maybe someone could explain/WAG what can be done with the clutch lever itself...??? I'm in no hurry with this thread & I can take the picture(s) to show, maybe. Would like to here some ideas from the BHQ Member's!

Better day today! Quad is getting faster even in shittier air today & the old man got 2nd place. Starting to make some progress with all these changes on both vehicles.

Well, it was a hectic day yesterday with the quad. We finally found out why it wasn't wanting to shift into 5 & 6th gears. A ground wire was loose & was causing intermittent shift kill problem. We also developed a clutch cover leak, luckily I had a new gasket. Even though the Density Altitude was the shittiest so far today; it will only get worse until Oct, LOL!. We did manage to go quicker with the quad. It liked the gear change, higher shift points & new tires. Today we plan on raising them another 300 rpm. Plus, lowering the shift kill milliseconds from 90 to 60. Both of us went out in the 1st round yesterday, hopefully we do better today!

Only 5 runs on the new radial slicks. Got 2 days of racing to get them better this weekend. Hope to go 1 or 2 tenths faster with the quad also. http://www.fasteddiesimagery.com/p54271643/h2752bfc3#h2752bfc3

One of them Banshee's has to be O.G. !!! Looks like a fun time.

We go to the track next weekend. I don't know what's causing the issue. I can only go by our past experience with the same issue. I have Dexron ATF in it now, but will take the Synchromax along with us.

We have always been taught old school with our drag racing. It's known or passed on the use of Type F trans fluid is used for its higher friction to help keep the clutches lock-up. They also use friction modifiers in clutch type limited slips in rear-ends to do the same thing. This was taken from Mobil 1: "The frictional characteristics of an automatic transmission fluid are an important factor in the design and operation of the transmission. All Ford transmissions built prior to 1977, and certain models that continued in use during 1977-1980, were designed for a high-friction fluid that allowed the shifting clutches to lock up or engage quickly. Ford specification ESW-M2C33-F covers this type of product, which is commonly referred to as "Type F" fluid."

Thanks Buddy, but I think I would be wasting your time! We had this exact same issue when testing the Type F trans fluid. We made 3 runs at the track & got to 90 millisecond & it wouldn't shift. Did nothing, but change back to our normal oil the same night & the problem went away. Heck, I don't know if the same thing is going on as above, but we are changing the oil to start. Plus, the boys didn't index the shift lever in Justin's normal spot. It could have been not allowing him to release the pressure on the shift arm. BTW, we are not running the Multi-Stage in this set-up.

While we like the Mobil 1 products we have never used them in the quad. This was the 1st time using the synthetic motor oil. We normally use Royal Purple Synchromax. We switched to Synthetic B&M Trick Shift, but I'm sure we have only ran that for 300' & not using the shift kill.

We don't know exactly what causes the problem. It shifts fine in the cut gears. I think the motor oil is to thick to allow the clutch plates to release enough during the shift kill. With the Type F it has a friction modifier & caused the same problem. We will find out next time out. Might have to go back to the expensive stuff.