SlowerThanYou

We have never used Sunoco fuels. We have used VP 110 & Rocket Brand 111. The tune-ups are the same as C14. On our set-up or style of racing the only change from the C14 to Q16 is the main jet size. With other types of riding, you would probably have to richen the air screw, pilot jet & needle a little. As for the times, Q16 is worth an easy .10 in 300', around .15 in the 1/8 mile & 1/4 mile. A trusted source at VP says, Q16 makes more peak HP than Methanol, but Alky will make more torque. We have ran both fuels & find they are very close in performance, with Alky providing a very small performance advantage.

I inquired about sponsoring a month ago, not the other night.

This is what we found with the Q16 running 300', 1/8 & 1/4 mile. Our baseline jetting for most conditions is 182 main using non oxygenated fuel (C14). We follow the high side of VP's fuel flow increase of 6% recommendation. The math works out to a 10.92 increase over the 182. While we have ran on a 192 main jet, our best runs on all surfaces come with a 195 main jet. FYI, we use 39-41mm PWKs.

The biggest difference in our set-ups is the tire diameter. The 18/38 (2.11 ratio) should be an improvement with a few other adjustments.

We are still a little lost on the DMX. It has only been to the track twice. We have never had very good results with the stock timing curves & additional timing in the plate with the cub motor. We started very conservative with the timing, using our cub gas timing curves. We start with 17*-20* of base timing. It slopes up to the highest timing between 22*-25* & we hold that for a set RPM range. Then we start pulling timing out to 8*-12* around our peak HP rpm. We found the cub timing was not enough for the DMX & started adding more timing. This will probably all change, because we think the stator was our problem. Anyway, the plan is to run the stock timing curve with +7 in the plate. This will be the setting for 2 runs with the stock CDI & 2 runs with the Dyna CDI. Then go back to our custom timing curve & use the launch limiter. So, I guess you could say we are doing 3 different test. We have only ran 300' the 2 times out. We hope to run 1/4 mile in the late fall. Note: The above test plan is subject to change, LOL!

Sorry, I misread that sentence. I would not feel comfortable with that either. Our newest motor is from K&T & they set it up the way I wanted.

Just wanted to add. Normally, I would like to get 3 or 4 runs of data from a test session like this. We will probably only have time for 2 runs with each cdi with the stock curve & the same advance in the plate. I already know then benefits/performance of using a Dyna ignition & using custom timing curves, along with the launch limiter. That's why we aren't spending much time with the test. So, take it for what's worth good or bad. This test will be more about Dyna's claims of better performance just from it being a better cdi/better or hotter spark.

IMO, to be an educated consumer. You need to research/study asphalt racer's, their set-ups & their builder's. Most of our asphalt education came from ourselves. Plus, working closely with numerous different builder's to help build & change our set-ups. K&T has a good amount of asphalt experience. The other builder's that have it are not Sponsor's here so I will not mention their names. You are conflicting with your last 2 sentences. You are implying you are wanting cylinders already ported ready to go. Then you think every build is to the customer's needs. IMO, your cylinders need to be ported to your needs and that's the only way it should be done.

Going to a 18 you will lose the pull down low & increase your top end if your motor can pull the rpm needed. Your 17/38 gearing is a good combination depending on your primary gears, tire diameter & weight to name a few. We run a 17/36 (2.12 ratio) for both 1/8 & 1/4 mile. That was with our old 443 gas cub. We would fine tune the gearing + or - of that ratio for track conditions & air readings to name a few. You answered your own question, LOL! Thanks!

The stock curve programed into the Dyna.

We have 2 different ignitions mounted for testing this next time out. One is a stock cdi & the other is a Dyna. They will both be run with the stock curve & same advance in the plate. I'm curious about the results, good or bad.

Well, hope to get some testing done soon. The 22nd was cancelled, now Kingman is cancelled. I'm not holding my breath for Dome Valley on July 5th. They cancelled last minute in June. I hope they run, it's one of the best tracks in the country. I hope to have some better results from the DMX this time out.

Seeing we are 300' rookies, we have no lightweight jockeys & no light weight frames. The answer would be no. Are we competitive heads up, index & bracket racing, yes. That's really all that matters to us is winning races. Our primary distance we run on asphalt is 1/4. The set-up for 1/8 mile is different, but we do well there also. Have I set any records on asphalt, no. The only people I know that claim records is Puerto Rico. There's no sanctioning organization that keeps records that I know of. I can count on one hand the people that can match or better our 1/4 mile ET. As for builder's, I only know one that's has stepped up to the plate to run that distance. They either say it can not be done. Like one of my previous builder's or they choose not to try for whatever reasons.

Your base between new & used springs should be compared using your installed height. Someone might be able to help you out if you provide the height. We hot lap our bike & used it hill shooting. We were able to get about 4 hot laps with lots of slip in our clutch. That was done on a race gas bike with cooling mods in the clutch pack. Alky will help with the heat issue, plus most people don't run close to the clutch slip we do. The only way to find out is to make 3 or 4 hot laps with your set-up. Then do a quick inspection of your clutch pack after the test & check the heat in the steels. I'm predicting high 1.20 60's for phunt in the near future!

1. I would run the 5w-30 or 10w30. 2. I wouldn't worry about what a new stock spring pressure is. Baseline what you have & make changes from there. phunt's quote below sums it up pretty good. I think I've heard that phrase a bunch of times. LOL! 3. If your set-up is right it will get hot. That's where the extra mods & in between round cooling procedures help control the heat. As for slipping too much or too tight. Again resort to the below quote. For hands on learning/clutch tuning. Wheelman Chassis has offered you a helping hand, that's the best way in my opinion! This is a good piece of advice, but I will elaborate just a little on it. I will use our new DMX motor combination. For lack of better words we are chasing/learning the clutch set-up with this motor. We started with our 443 Cub set-up & started making adjustments from there. Once we find a good overall set-up we will leave it pretty much alone, except for preventive maintenance. We have between 50 & 60 runs & probably will need around 200-300 runs to feel comfortable with the clutch set-up. Now, our old 7mm motor we had somewhere around 900 asphalt, hill shooting & 300' runs on it. We were very comfortable with that clutch set-up. Only had to make very minor adjustments with it. Most of changes were not made at the track or at the dunes. Now, most of you might find this clutch tuning overwhelming. It can be, a couple of us learned how to do this with very little help. Very little of this information was used in ATV powersports & even less of it was shared. It's really not hard when the basics are being spoon fed to you! Follow the basics in this thread, research other sources & take a little time to learn another tuning aspect of your ATV. If you follow the basics & use sound judgment like phunt & a few other's. Clutch tuning is worth it's weight in gold. Choose not to follow the basics & chase your tail in circles!

K&T ask me if I wanted the 4s on our DMX. I didn't go with them because they hadn't tested them yet.

Heck, I think we bought our 10x2s with rotor mounts in 2008. I'm sure they were being built way before that.

I do own this place, LocoHomo is my biatch!

I must say, you have been taking a little more serious note on a few of your posts lately. LOL! To tell you the truth, I don't feel the performance Banshee industry is even close to modern day Motorsports. There's much more that can be done with motor components, but too much emphasis is being put on motors. There are many additional items that should be looked into using & we try to do some of that. The clutch tuning is one of my favorites. ATV clutching technology is easily 10-15 years behind most racing Motorsports & even more in some cases. Enough said on that, without getting Windy. Another is ignition technology & it seems to be catching up slowly. We love the features of the Dyna CDI, but it's limited. The newer Digital MSD ignitions in our race cars can do some amazing things. The MSD MC-4 motorcycle ignition is being adapted for use on 2 cylinder 2 strokes. It has most if not all the same features of the car ignitions. Fuels have become a big player in Motorsports lately. Using oxygenated race gas like Q16 can come pretty close to the power of Alky. Some people at VP will say it makes more power in certain applications. All I know is it works great for us & we were competitive with it in our 443 cub motor. One last area that's having a great impact on going faster, is tires. The American Racers are improving 60's & ETs. I still think that it's outdated technology for some of the bigger build drag bikes. I only hit on a few areas & my opinion has always been. Too many people focus too much on the motor. Nothing wrong with having the most power for a given motor combination. The problem is most can't get that power down to the ground in an efficient manner. That's where a proper ignition box tune will allow power to be taken away in certain areas to go faster; just to give an example! Like usual this is just my opinion, so member's don't get their panties in a twist.

IMO, Titan & CP are so far up Charlie's ass you probably will not see them openly advertising anywhere else. Millennium, do they even really need to advertise. As for PSDA, they really don't fall far from Charlie. They're an improvement, but not by much. Not much technical goes on there & if you don't agree with the right few people. It's met with the same Nazi mentality PS was known for. As for HQ, bigger doesn't always mean better. As for the technical side of sites. PS was the place & now there's no replacement that I have found. I have landed or made home in the HQ lately. I think I had like 600 post from 2006 until 2012. That doubled in the past year, be it good or bad. The reason it did was because of the other sites failing & PSDA not being much different than PS & with no technical discussion. Remember it's my opinion, not that it really matters.

You are a wealth of technical information on that comment!

Hmmmm..... LocoHomo is somewhat pulling his head out of his ass. I didn't think he got the big picture, but he's slowly figuring it out.

LOL!

Tyler, if you really think that clutch tuning is for 300' or asphalt. Then stay under your rock & suck dirt. It's being used in hill shooting, trail bikes, desert riding & ice racing to name a few. Now, if you don't like the clutch tuning thread with close to 14,000 views with very little drama. Then delete the thread, because it's not meeting your none know-it-all needs. Apparently there's a need for it, just like other threads for the HQ Member's. You & other's might not agree with it, but a good many do. For those who do not like it, suck some clutch sediments!

Finally got released for work today. The recovery was just short of 3 months. I still have some physical therapy in the future months. Thanks for the well wishes & whatever else. LOL!