troyminator Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 All, I gotta lil' delima...I just got my bike back from a friend who had been working on some things...latest things he did was some changing the shift splines and replacing the clutch cover gasket. When I went to pick it up from him, the main o-ring on my cool head busted out. It wasn't long ago that he replaced all of the o-rings, but also changed the domes and whatnot. So I went and bought an o-ring kit...but we only replaced that one o-ring that blew out. Took the bike out yesterday. It was running great! Then... The bike started to stutter a bit and then came the smoke...and alot of it. White smoke started blowing out of the right side pipe. So basically I putted it down to the flats and pulled it back to camp. When I start it, it doesn't want to run unless I give it gas (won't idle at all). Smoke still comes out of that one pipe. When I say that it won't idle...as soon as I let off the gas, the bike immediately shuts off. I need help! What can I do about this before the 1st? Any suggestions? I am thinking that it may be an o-ring inside the coolhead allowing coolant to get into the chamber, but I am not really sure. What else could it be? Please help. Thanks, Troy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boonman Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 What does the smoke smell like? Is it a horrid smell? My first guess with a cool head is an oring blowout. If the smoke smells like shit, than you blew a crank seal. What is the compression? Also, are you loosing coolant? Is the cooling system building pressure? Are you losing tranny oil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troyminator Posted December 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 I didn't ride it much, so I can't say that I lost much coolant once it started to smoke. I don't know about the compression. I would have to buy a compression tester...do they sell those at harbor freight do you know? I don't remember the smell...I just remember being pissed! I will try to check the smell tonight...what would affect the fact that it won't run without giving it much throttle? Thanks, Troy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boonman Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 that it either has lost compression due to a blown head gasket, or it is sucking tranny oil and fouling out. Prolly running on one cylinder. Smell is very important on the right side. What does the plug look like? And yes, they do sell compresison testers at Harbor freight, but do NOT get one there. Pony up the extra $$ and get a good one. Mine cost me a bundle, but I trust it very highly.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troyminator Posted December 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 Boonman, How would I know if the coolant system is building pressure? Troy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troyminator Posted December 23, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2003 I checked the compression on both cylinders....one is at 150 but the other is only at 90. Looks like I may have some problems huh!? What do you suggest I do next..any thoughts? I was gonna pull off the coolhead and take a look down below to see what's going on. Sux to be me right now! Any thoughts would be greatly appreciatded! T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lincster Posted December 23, 2003 Report Share Posted December 23, 2003 Troy!!! Oh man, that does suck. Sorry to hear that dude. It could just be due to the bad head o rings. You will get a false reading if the head is not sealing. No matter what, you are gonna have to pull the head to replace the o ring. Once you get the head off, look for any scoring. You will be able to tell if your cylinder is bad. Let me know. Later, Linc Oh yeah, I learned the hard way, replace all of the o rings together. I did what you did, only replace a couple, then I had some of the others start to leak. Buy another kit and replace them all once you get it back together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troyminator Posted December 23, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2003 Linc, What's up my brotha? Does suck...I cleaned off the bike tonight...tomorrow night I will pull off the head. I have never really messed with the cylinders...always had somebody do it for me...but need to learn to do the stuff myself...I am just scared that I will mess something up. I can design stuff all day and put it together without worries, but once I start playing with stuff that I haven't designed...I get worried that I will mess something up. When I pull off the head, should I pull off the top of the coolhead first? Then pull off the lower portion next? I will look for any cracked or pinched o-rings...or o-rings that don't look "proper". When I look down the cylinder, will it be obvious if something in there is messed up? Boonman, I started the bike this evening and smelt the exhaust...didn't smell really bad...I don't know what you mean by "horid" smell, but it just smelled like something burning...hard to say...I am no mechanic by any means:) What should compression be anyhow? I don't know what size domes I have for sure...are they stamped with the size? Well guys...as always, your input and advice is greatly appreciated! Thanks again, T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boonman Posted December 23, 2003 Report Share Posted December 23, 2003 To tell if the cooling system is building pressure, pull the radiator cap off, put on a pair of goggles, take a deep breath, fire the bike up. look into the top of the radiator. If you get a faceful of coolant, your cooling system is building pressure. And being that you stated I checked the compression on both cylinders....one is at 150 but the other is only at 90. Looks like I may have some problems huh!? you kind of answered your own question. Now, you could have a marred cylinder, and be losing compression that way, or you could have a leaky head gasket. Either way, there is problems, and you need to address that. Now, I started the bike this evening and smelt the exhaust...didn't smell really bad...I don't know what you mean by "horid" smell, but it just smelled like something burning...hard to say...I am no mechanic by any means:) The exhaust can smell one of three ways. Normal, which would be a healthy smell, something I love myself. A good running 2 stroke!!!!! Another smell can smell like burning coolant. To figure this out, it will smell like burning maple syrup. Open a bottle of ethylene glycol, (coolant) and smell it. Now, picture this stuff burning, and how it would smell. really sweet. Or, it can smell horrid. By horrid, I mean bad. Have you ever opened up a differential cover on a car or truck? It smells like hell. Or, when you change the gear oil in the shee, what does it smell like? Now, picture this stuff burning, and think of what it would smell like. When you pull the head off, pull it off like you described. One piece at a time. And replace all the orings at once. They are cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troyminator Posted December 23, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2003 Boonman, Thanks for the information. I am hoping to get a little more background information for my own future knowledge. Don't get me wrong, I will take a look down into the cylinder and at the o-rings tonight. My question has to do with the white smoke. If the head gasket is leaking...what can happen? Are we talking that air would get into the cylinder?...or would oil get in?...or would coolant get in?...or all of the above? I think that I understand that if there were "gouges" in the cylinder, then oil could get by the piston rings...or do I have that wrong. Like I said, I am trying to become a little "braver" with working on my bike, but I like to know the reasoning behind things. If the o-rings were bad in the coolhead, then I believe only coolant could get in the cylinders, but I may be wrong there:) Your knowledge is key to my sucess:) Thanks again, T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lincster Posted December 23, 2003 Report Share Posted December 23, 2003 Troy, You are going to have to drain the coolant obviously. Remove the hose running into the clutch cover, and then remove the 2 bolts on the sides of the cylinders, little ones. Then you won't have as much of a mess when you pull the head. Remove the nuts in the same sequence as the go on, the diagram is in the Clymers. Pull off the top cover, remove the main body and then the domes will come out. Yes, there is a number stamped onto the domes telling you what size you have. Take off the gas tank first, this will help alot. You will be able to see if the cylinders are messed up, it will be obvious. As far as the white smoke, that is a classic coolant burning tell tale. I have seen it in cars before when they have had blown headgaskets. Coolant is getting into the cylinders, as well as air, hence your loss in compression. Usually, if you are burning tranny oil, it is not white. I am not at work this week, so you will understand if you send me an email and I don't reply. Let me know how it goes. Linc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boonman Posted December 23, 2003 Report Share Posted December 23, 2003 I think that I understand that if there were "gouges" in the cylinder, then oil could get by the piston rings...or do I have that wrong. Like I said, I am trying to become a little "braver" with working on my bike, but I like to know the reasoning behind things. Oil would kind of get by, but not in the sense that you are thinking. You see, there is no oil in the crankcase. Well, not like in a 4-stroke. The only oil that is in the crankcase is from the fuel. (That's why you mix the oil and fuel). if there are gouges, than you will be getting blowby, and therefore not getting a complete combustion. And smoke..... My question has to do with the white smoke. If the head gasket is leaking...what can happen? Are we talking that air would get into the cylinder?...or would oil get in?...or would coolant get in?...or all of the above? If the head gasket is leaking, you will build pressure in the cooling system most likely, and it would also suck coolant into the cylinder, giving you smoke... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troyminator Posted December 23, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2003 First of all, You guys are good! Next, a couple more questions.... 1. Does it make sense that if there was a coolant leak into the cylinder, that the bike would not run unless I gave it constant throttle? 2. When I install new o-rings, do you guys use Super O-Lube or anything like that to help seal the o-ring? 3. Do you guys use any loctite on the nuts when reinstalling them? Thanks again, T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lincster Posted December 23, 2003 Report Share Posted December 23, 2003 1. Yes, it is trying to ignite the coolant as well as the fuel/oil mixture. At idle, or carbs closed, there is not enought fuel to overcome the coolant. 2. I just use like 10W40 or something I have around just to hold the orings in place will I have the body and top upside down. If you can get away without using anything, don't. But some of the orings will have to have something to hold them onto the cool head. It may take a couple of times. Be patient. 3. Nope, don't use any loctite or anything. And use a in/lb torque wrench. If you use a ft/lb wrench, you don't get the resolution. Just take the figures in the book, in ft/lb, and multiply by 12 to get in/lb. I do it in 3 increments. Good luck brotha. I'll check back tonite to see if you have any questions while you are working on it. We are planning New Years weekend, hopefully you can have your stuff back together by then. Will be going to Buttercup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troyminator Posted December 24, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2003 Damn! I finally got home from last minute xmas shopping...(always happens no matter what you say about next year!) Took off the gas tank, the front plastics...pulled off the lower radiater hose, pulled off the upper radiator hose from the coolhead...tried not to make a mess, but you know how that goes:) I then proceeded to remove the nuts...no problems...it looks like the guy who worked on my bike used a little gasket maker when putting the coolhead back on...no problems...it all came apart ok. All the top o-rings looked good. The o-rings around the studs all in place and the main o-ring seal ok. Then I carefully pulled off the lower portion...but before I could get it off, I removed the little block that the other radiator hose plugs into (2 M5 allens I think). I tried to remove the hose first, but it was difficult to get it off the hose fitting with such small space to work with. {The hose I am talking about goes from the coolhead (towards the rear of the bike) into the bottom end or something down there. Once all of the hoses were disconnected, I pulled off the lower portion of the coolhead. That is when I noticed what looks like may have happened.... Drum roll please...... The side that wasn't smoking the dome is nice and "brownish" looking. The side that was smoking is very clean, but also "chewwed" up. The top of the piston is also chewwed up. I does appear as though there may be a "gouge" in the cylinder. Now what do I do? I was going to call the guy that works on my bike and ask him, but I would really like to figure things out a bit more with your guys' help:) This is where things can really get screwed up I think, so if you think I should leave anything else up to the pro's, let me know. Thanks guys! T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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