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60FT times suck


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#1 daweaseltoo

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 07:46 PM

first time to a 300ft sand drag race and i can't seem to get launched. the track is all sand, no dirt mix. my set up is a 10 cub, 150 lb rider, 15/42 gear, stock frame, +8 swinger, +2 a-arms, lowered with R6 rear and ex300 front shocks. i started with 72" ro 12 paddle extremes and then tried a buddies 72" ro 13 paddle extremes. my 60ft times didn't really change much from switching tires. my et got .056 quicker though. i've posted a couple pictures and time slips, hoping for some advise on my set up. i'm number 24 on the slips, orange in the pics, my kid is #28 on a 7mm stock cylinder we switch tires on his too for comparison. something else too, my front never lifts at all now since i switched shocks to lower it? i've got a ton of times slips, no 60ft time quicker than the one with my son riding (1.759).

http://i1129.photobu...oo/DSCN6394.jpg

http://i1129.photobu...oo/DSCN6388.jpg

http://i1129.photobu...ragtimes032.jpg

my kid (115 lbs) ran 60ft in 1.759 and a 4.30 on #24.

#2 Rotax Raptor

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 12:25 AM

Your mph is pretty good which means the gearing is close. If you're not bogging off the line I would go up to 14 paddle extremes. Without a wheelie bar that may create another problem. Try to get that 60' time down to 1.5.
I run a 10mil cub, rigid, 16 or 17 / 44 gearing with 14 extremes. My 60' is 1.5, 75 mph and 4.1 et. I've got a little work to do also.

#3 dajogejr

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 05:53 AM

I agree...your MPH is there.
That 60 foot time, if it's accurate, is absolutely horrid.
Are you launching in 2nd gear? Try more paddle (14 extreme at least) and a 16 tooth gear up front.

I would bet, without watching a video...you're blowing the tires off 150 foot into the track. Your front end isn't even getting lighter.

And this may be tough, but a rear strut for flat drag racing is better. A lot of times a shock, even a Marvin Shaw pumped all the way up to 1400 to 1500PSI will take away from your holeshot inertia.
Instead of launching and pushing you forward, it'll soak up some of that power and compress the shock.

Tire and gearing to start out...a light rider like you, especially in a pure sand track...15 tooth up front will do nothing but spin. Go 16 up front, launch in second and slip the clutch out, don't just dump it.

Without clay or dirt and on flat ground...I don't know if you ever get killer 60 foot times, like 1.3s or 1.4s...but you should be able to shave at least a couple of tenths off that 60 foot, especially being a light rider.

Once your 60's drop, your ETs will as well. Anyone worth their salt in drag racing will tell you races are won at the tree and in the first 60 feet.

Good luck to ya!!

#4 daweaseltoo

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 09:13 AM

Yeah i launch in second and get it into third right away, no bog at all. i might be able to launch in third but i thought that would blow the tires out worse? i'll keep my eye out for some 14 extremes for sure and see if i can stiffen up the rear shock some more too. it's weird cause it use to lift with the stock soft shock on, but now that is lowered with the stiffer shock, doesn't lift at all?

#5 dajogejr

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 09:37 AM

Yeah i launch in second and get it into third right away, no bog at all. i might be able to launch in third but i thought that would blow the tires out worse? i'll keep my eye out for some 14 extremes for sure and see if i can stiffen up the rear shock some more too. it's weird cause it use to lift with the stock soft shock on, but now that is lowered with the stiffer shock, doesn't lift at all?


No, you'll want to launch in 2nd. Go 16 up front. At your weight, it will pull that NO problem. It'll also cut down on wheel spin.
There's no reason to launch in 3rd. You want to launch in 3rd and be tapped out in 5th gear going through the traps.

More tires and 16 tooth up front will make a world of difference. Also play with air pressure. Start out with 8PSI. Then 6, then 4...not changes.
On clay/sand tracks, we often ran 2 to 3PSI.

We didn't race on pure sand 300ft like you are.
It's not lifting because you're lowered AND you're blowing the tires off.

#6 daweaseltoo

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 09:50 AM

k i'll try the 16 on the front, i don"t know where that will put me at the finish in 4th or 5th but will find out.

#7 daweaseltoo

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 11:27 AM

Your mph is pretty good which means the gearing is close. If you're not bogging off the line I would go up to 14 paddle extremes. Without a wheelie bar that may create another problem. Try to get that 60' time down to 1.5.
I run a 10mil cub, rigid, 16 or 17 / 44 gearing with 14 extremes. My 60' is 1.5, 75 mph and 4.1 et. I've got a little work to do also.


do you get into 5th with a 16 or 17/44?

#8 dajogejr

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 11:35 AM

In 300 foot on a cub you absolutely should get into 5th gear...actually be maxed out in 5th gear.
However, if it's spin city....maybe not. :)

#9 daweaseltoo

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 11:57 AM

In 300 foot on a cub you absolutely should get into 5th gear...actually be maxed out in 5th gear.
However, if it's spin city....maybe not. :)



i think i'm close to being maxed now with 15/42, so with a 16 or 17 i might be able to get it into 5th but i'm sure it won't be maxed out. will be easy to try though just to see if it makes a 60ft difference :dance: .

#10 dajogejr

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 12:22 PM

Absolutely no reason to go 17 up front, unless you were going tiny out back and moving over to a longer distance.

If you're at or near maxed out with 15 up front, you should still be able to get into 5th gear with 16.
1 tooth up front is roughly 2.5 teeth out back.

Here's a gearing ratio chart that will help you.

http://home.comcast....rratiochart.gif

You may have to add a link to your chain, keep that in mind. So I'd put the new sprocket up front and run the chain, rather than go to the track and realize...Holy Shit...who has a chain breaker. LOL.

#11 Rotax Raptor

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 12:49 PM

do you get into 5th with a 16 or 17/44?

I'm hitting 5th gear about 50 feet before the finish line. But again, I'm only hitting 75 to 76 mph. I should be where you're at on mph. I honestly think at 150 pounds you could run some 16 paddle. Try to borrow tires and then buy what works best.

#12 dajogejr

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 01:15 PM

Guys...this is totally my opinion.

Try not to get hung up on MPH. Instead, work on 60foot and ET.

Rob @ RDZ...like him or hate him, is a king of small motors.
His game is 60 foot. He puts paddles on small motors most won't dream of. His 60 foot and ET win races and set records. His MPH...not so much.
Others in the smaller sized motor classes pull 10MPH on him. But they can't get his 60 foot or ET.

I've use MPH to help with timing in the past. When you hit a wall with timing, your ET will be the same but you'll lose MPH. You know you went too far when that happens.

Cannot say it enough....60 foot is where it's at. Get that down, the rest is much easier.

#13 daweaseltoo

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 01:30 PM

Guys...this is totally my opinion.

Try not to get hung up on MPH. Instead, work on 60foot and ET.

Rob @ RDZ...like him or hate him, is a king of small motors.
His game is 60 foot. He puts paddles on small motors most won't dream of. His 60 foot and ET win races and set records. His MPH...not so much.
Others in the smaller sized motor classes pull 10MPH on him. But they can't get his 60 foot or ET.

I've use MPH to help with timing in the past. When you hit a wall with timing, your ET will be the same but you'll lose MPH. You know you went too far when that happens.

Cannot say it enough....60 foot is where it's at. Get that down, the rest is much easier.



Yeah, that's what i'm thinking too. lowering my 60ft will help my et and don't worry about so much about mph. guess it's time to get the wallet out and get some tires. i try tires first and then work on the gearing.

#14 dajogejr

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 01:36 PM

In my honest opinion, try tires out if you can. 400 a pop or so (used or new...prices vary) it's tough to swallow that kind of bill.

The guys I've raced with...would give you the spark plugs out of their bike so you could make a pass...just to get them back so they could make a pass.
I'm sure there's someone there that could let you borrow a set for a day, if not a few passes.
I think 14 extreme would be a huge step in the right direction. Remember, try different air pressures as well.

#15 SlowerThanYou

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 11:09 PM

There's some good advice so far, but there are some other options also.

One, depending if you are running a lock-up. You can also take away some primary pressure in your clutch to help wiith your wheel spin/60'time. Depending on your arm weights you might have to add weight to get it to lock-up down track. It will not solve all your problems, but it will help with the overall set-up.